never forget it. if i tell you, you'll forget it right away. and she was right. that's it for us today. we'll see all you premium members on the factor postgame show. we hope to see youou next time. the spin stops right here because we're looking out for you! [captioning made possible by fox news] sean: tonight -- >> the health care proposal needs to be killed now. >> while the president's away, the health care debate ranges on. >> glad i called on you, ma'am. thank you. sean: today the director threatens to quit after a showaltering match at the white house. we investigate oregon death panels. >> what are they going to do to me, huh? not like the governor of alaska. sean: david letterman is at it again. >> and here's what's on the reading list. sean: is the president planning

to actually read the health care bill? all that plus governor tim pawlenty, and more. hannity starts right here right now. the president may ab way but the health care debate. continues to rage in his absence. our -- we go live to reston, virginia, where congressman howard dean is holding a meeting. >> if 2001 was the summer of sharks, this one is the summer of town hall meetings and this one is no less contentious than any others. perhaps because howard dean turned out with congressman jim moran. there are about 3,000 people here and they're not standing altogether. here's a little bit of what happened outside this event.

take a look. >> well, what we can have is a system that's not decided by the government but by the free market. >> work toward being part of the solution instead of just saying no to anything the >> how do you know -- of course that's what i'm working for. he asked me a question. can i fish it? >> hang on a second, fellow. you've talked more than anybody else. >> the fact is you want to reform the entire health care system -- that's a farce. >> you can hear the crowd over me. chairman dean of course let with a lot of questions. he's drawn some criticisms on blogs today for what he said about republican lawmakers opposing the president's health care initiative. here's what he said on another program last night. >> this republican party, this shrinking republican party is just determined to undermine president obama and unfortunately you have to

undermine the country in order to undermine the president. i think that's too bad. >> i tried to catch up with chairman dean and ask him a question. he seemed to have changed his tune a little bit as he was coming into this event. you said last night that the republicans op ogse the president's health care initiative were undermining the country. could you clarify that? >> i did not say that. >> i have the quote right here, sir. >> sean, interestingly enough they handed out the george washington rules of civility when 3,000 people showed up here. but here's how chairman dean was introduced when he -- received when he was introduced. . >> this country spends -- -- i'm sorry, but i can't even hear the governor and i'm sitting next to him. they really don't belong here and i'm going to ask them to and i'm going to ask them to leave.

[crowd shouting and chanting] >> one person was escorted out. anti-abortion activist randall terry as well as another gentleman who supported him, for disrupting. but certainly the passion continues about 20 miles from washington. back time-out sean: joining me to discuss all this is minnesota governor tim pawlenty. what an incredible report here. first, your reaction. dr. dean did say "undermine our country." he was right there. they're asking people to leave. "they don't belong here." since when do american citizens

not belong confronting their public servants. is that new in america? >> that report showed you and your viewers the sights and sounds of democracy in action. i think that should be applauded and we should say thank you to the people who are standing up to a very bad idea. we have in this tradition an ability for people to fight against ideas they don't like. we want them to do it peacefully and civilly but this should be respected, not criticized. if anybody is undermining the direction of the country it's people like dr. dean who say we should have a new health care system proposed by president obama. sean: interesting to see if the media will call him out on what he just lied about because we saw the tape and heard him with our own ears. 58 democratic senators. obviously byrd and kennedy are not feeling well so i wouldn't expect them to have a town hall but less than a third are willing to go out and meet with

the american people. grandmothers, stay at home moms, veterans, concerned citizens. do you think they're hiding from the american people or they're afraid? >> clearly there's been a scaling back of these town halls because they don't want to be confronted by people who have questions, who are upset. and that's democracy in action. they -- they should be willing to stand there and listen. but we have a federal golf. that can't even run the entitlement programs it has now. why would we give them another one? having the federal golf. watch your money is like having michael vick watch your dog for a weekend. sean: and fannie and freddie and social security, they're going bankrupt. and i thonet think anyone was too happy with the golf. during hurricane katrina.

but in -- there are people who think the government is capable of doing this. i'm not too confident. are you? >> well, you look at the track record, social security, medicare, others, they have basically put on a path to bankruptcy every single entitlement program they run. we all acknowledge that health care needs to be fixed but it needs to be fixed with consumers in charge, not the federal government. sean: we now look at the president's poll numbers as he heads to martha's vineyard for vacation. 45% disapproval. here's what we have. now barack obama, six months ago he predicted what the deficit would be. he was off by $2 trillion. he now is predicting that we're going to hit double digits unemployment and it's going to

be for the better part of 2010, around 10% unemployment in this country and i'm look at this and i see that the rest of the media is focused in on eric holder and the c.i.a. and the appointment of ben bernanke. that seems to be to be a kind of bait and switch. do you think they're purposely trying to distract the american people away from these low poll numbers and the fact that their predictions have been so off and the fact that the mesh peel -- american people are speaking out so loudly at these town halls? >> not necessarily. i think their judgment is so bad and they're so hard left that they're making mistakes on multiple fronts at once. as bad as this decision is, the decision by eric holder, we should be prosecuting terrorists. they are cold blood killers. we should not be prosecuting

individuals who are working day in and day out to protect us. to have the c.i.a. see this taken away from them i think is outrageous. the attorney general should be reminded we are still a nation alt war and c.i.a. shouldn't stand for "can't interrogate anyone." sean: at page 85, the government in its own report actually admits that the program was more successful, every c.i.a. director said they got more intense, more information, saved more lives than all our intelligence communities combined. i do believe there's a political factor here. as the president is on vacation i believe they want to change the story away from these town halls and their falling poll numbers. you don't think that's a factor? >> it may be, but they're multiplying their troubles. it's other high on the country's list of concerns.

but the situation is -- sean: sorry. -- >> i think they're making multiple mistakes all at once. sean: there -- will they be successful in passing this or not? >> i sure hope not, sean. i hope and pray not. sean: thanks for being with us. coming up, the heartbreaking story of a woman who lost her battle against cancer. are the death panels to blame in the state of oregon? first, reports that the c.i.a. director may step down.

>> dick cheney's not the only one who has doubts about the administration's ability to handle security issues. a report that after a "profanity-laced screaming match," leon panetta threatened to step down as head of the to step down as head of the c.i.a. [ female announcer ] introducing the latest

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it pays to discover. sean: there's been a great deal of debate in recent weeks about whether so-called death panels are part of this proposed legislation. while democrats continue to deny that such a thing exists, a government-controlled takeover off the health care system has some people skeptical. >> for those of you who still insist death panels don't exist, many residents in oregon would disagree with you. about a year ago a portland affiliate reported this story about a woman who wanted to fight for the right to live. barbara wag next, a 64-year-old cancer patient, learned in 2008 that her lung cancer which had

been in remission had returned and would probably take her life. the doctor prescribed a drug which could prolong her life. wagner was divorced and living in low-income housing. there was no way she could afford the cost of the metcation, $4,000 a month. she turned to the state for help. why? back in 2004, the state adopted a public option very similar to that being proposed today. barbra knew it would pay for her chemo and health care but it was different this time around. >> that hope shattered with this letter from the oregon health plan telling her we are unable to approve the cancer

treatment. it will pay for comfort care, better known as assisted suicide. >> wagner said it was horrible. 12 years ago oregon passed a law, the only one of its kind here in the u.s., called the death with anything -- dignity act which allows those who are terminaly ill to end their lives with lethal medication. apparently it's a lot cheap orr -- cheaper for people to die than stay alive. the cost of the lethal medations? about $50. but wagner was opposed and said i haven't considered it even at my lowest point much the company that makes the drugs heard about the story and sent her a free one-year supply of the meds. but it was not enough in the

end. she lost her battle with cancer last october and her family truly believes the stress added to her illness and sped up the death. so if you don't think death panels exist, you might change your mind the sean: so for all the talk, governor palin, about death panels, here you have a woman who gets cancer. she gets initial treatment. cancer comes back. she wants more treatment. well, let's talk about hospice care and we have assisted suicide in oregon the >> this is what really frightens people. this is exactly the sort of scenario they're fearful of. this is why obama and rahm emanuel wanted to take advantage of this opportunity and ram health care through so quickly in two weeks so that all these stories wouldn't come

out. sean: and everyone denied the death panels. governor palin is wrong. but then all of a sudden the senate says oh, we'll drop the end of life counseling sessions from the original house version. >> it started to spread the fear, the fact that from a dollar standpoint you have to acknowledge that most of our health care dollars are spent in the last years and months of our lives so when you're talking about a health care bill that the initial point of this to be passed is to ration care and save money in the health care system it's a natural reaction to think that this is what we may soon be facing. sean: and this is the frightening thing. we got into this a bit last night. our own veterans' hospitals and nursing homes, they have a book "your life, your choices." george bush heard about this book, they got rid of it. have you ever heard anyone say "i'm a vegetable, pull the

plug," or have you ever heard "if i can no longer contribute to my family's well-being" -- these are veterans at their most vulnerable being counseled and guilt ridden. >> and it's it interesting that the obama administration is to -- so utterly tone deaf about the fears of these people. they go out there and say if you complain about what's happening, here's the evil hmonger, you're -- monger, you're un-american. essentially asking are you a burden on your family's financial situation. >> these are actual real questions. sean: "do you think you're causing severe financial burder fon -- burden for your family" -- >> and this is the last thing

we need to be putting in the hands of our veterans amount the time they come home. basically trying to assess what their contribution is to society, are they worth it? sean: so we have it in oregon, we have examples. we have "your life, your choices" at the v.a. we know in great britain they have a formula where they figure you will live x number of years, we'll pay this number of dollars to help up. >> even if you set aside end of life discussions with your physician, the most frightening part about this health care bill is this compare i -- comparative research analysis that reduces everyone's life down to a balance sheet. here's how long you're going to live. here's your quality of life as bureaucrats in a distant land have determined and here's what we think you're worth. here's the dollar amount we think you're worth.

sean: it goes even further. national health service. women with breast cancer in great britain denied coverage and virtually given a death sentence. can we just say governor palin pretty much got this right in spite of the denials? >> the critics are going to say she took to to the extremes but she is right along the lines that yes, the life of someone either old or disabled, is being assessed. sean: this is the book. this is oregon. great britin. -- britain. >> what is undeniable, if you live in america and get breast cancer or prostate or colon cancer your chances of survival are much better than in great arbitrate -- britain. that really says it all. sean: and that's canada too. most of the countries with socialized medicine. >> universal health care is great as long as you're healthy. sean: guys, good to see you. thank you. and looks like david letterman and looks like david letterman was short onnnnnnnn

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sean: tonight on "hannity's america," after weeks of accusing town hall attendees of being an astroturf movement, democrats are now planning to do a little bit of organizing themselves. this week the democratic national committee is hosting 1,000 rallies in cities all across the country to promote government-run government and get this -- politico.com reports that a special interest group known as health care for america now will be helping to promote these phony town hall events. nancy pelosi, does that sound like astroturf to you? and letterman is at it again.

>> the miss universe pageant is judged on poise, beauty and also how you walk in high heels. what a coincidence. it's also how the republicans pick a vice-presidential candidate. the same criteria. sean: that joke comes near -- only a few months after letterman was nearly ousted for viciously attacking sarah palin's daughter on his show. he eventually apologized. i guess some people will never learn. another obama mentor is coming out of the woodwork, this time charles ogletree. he made a career defending left-wing radicals. doris brin walker defended angela davis in 1972. davis faced the dealt penalty

when a gun registered in her name was linked to the davegt judge and three others. ogle tree says of walker -- sean: how lovely. what can i say? the radical connections keep leading back to the president. sean: the chamber of commerce has any say in it we may be in for another scopes monkey trial. that 1925 event put the theory of evolution on trial in tennessee and instituted a law making it a crime to teach creationy. the court ruled it was in fact illegal to deny the theory of creation by teaching evolution in schools.

the u.s. chamber of commerce, which represents three million businesses, they want to put the theory of global warming on trial and if it's disproved it would ward off potentially crippling environmental legislation. a vr official said it would be evolution versus creationism. wonder if al gore is free to represent the defense? "hannity's america" continues "hannity's america" continues next with a

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sean: the white house announced that the -- what the president will be reading on vacation. his choices include tom friedman "hot, flat, and crowded" and "plainsong." lovely list but isn't there something a bit more pressing he should be devoting his attention to? like the 1,818

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sean: so here with his take on all of this is an expert on the subject, pollster and author of the upcoming book "what americans really want really," frank luntz is really here. good to see you. thanks for being here. >> it's a pleasure, sean the sean: we've known this but there's a little more specificity and detail, for example, their focus group and polling showed that they should use certain words. let's put them up on the screen and take a look at it. these are words of the pro-obama team that they're specifically using in the debate. for example -- is that about right from your polling in >> it's about right, but, sean, i want to set the perspective,

the context for this. if you a -- you take a look at the left wing blogs, those who are most supportive of the government option, they've condemned republicans and those who oppose barack obama for using polling and focus groups. every day there is another denouncement of someone who would use "poll-driven language" and focus groups. so why is it wrong for those who oppose this health care plan to try to understand the public even though it's ok for the obama administration to do it? the first word they don't want is government because to the public, government is the post office, the i.r.s., the one that delivered us that great success called katrina. do you really want an organization that cannot deliver your mail, this is -- that is in your life and can't even resolve katrina to deliver your health care? second word, competition.

that's a word the republicans on use. the problem is the public doesn't care about the economic component of health care, they just want to get and stay healthy. and the third, universal care, the problem is it sounds just like the clinton care the people rejected 15 years ago. sean: and this is very important for people to know, frank. this is almost manipulative. almost like they're trying to use the right words, convince people, the bumper stickers and slogans, that will con vips people without any specifics. it's somewhat manipulative in terms of them using this language, isn't it? there's a manipulative side to this. >> but let's be fair. both sides are using language, trying to convince the public. my only complaint in this process is that those who support obama's health care are condemning the other side for using the same tactics and strategy they themselves are using.

they're just pissed off, by the way, because their language isn't as good. sean: we have other words the pro-obama team are using. words to use, sliding scale, prevention, rules, choice, words to shun, free, we will -- wellness, regulations, medicare for all. how do you analyze that? >> everybody hates the idea of regulation because to them regulation means limitation so i'm not surprised about that. wellness? the truth is prevention is much more effective with wellness than eliminating it. i think they've got the language wrong. i understand what they're trying to sell and they haven't provided specifics but that's because we don't know the specifics. sean: we have the president literally taking these focus group driven phrases and putting it in his speeches. >> if you don't have health insurance, you will finally have quality affordable options

once we pass reform. the key is cost control, competition, making sure that people have good quality options. this also includes, by the way, preventive care, wellness care because our system really is not a health care system, it's more like a disease care system. sean: it used to be health care reform. now it's health insurance reform. you can see that they're applying this as this has failed, they're using the new terminology, right? >> fascinating to watch. you notice he said cost control. what he should have said was ending waste, fraud, abuse and mismanagement. here's the problem when you get to the details. medicare is the great example. barack obama never said that he's going to cut medicare benefits for seniors. but what he did say is that he's going to cut medicare reimbursement. this is something i challenge the organization media matters because they simply got it wrong. it's like they've got high

school interns doing their research. there's a difference between medicare reimbursement and benefits. do you understand what cutting reimbursement means? less doctors will want to take medicare recipients, less hospitals will welcome them. it's going to mean denial of coverage. from you -- if you don't give doctors the money, they won't do the procedures. sean: and another side of this, senator mccain had a pretty successful town hall today. i want you to analyze some of the language from the other side. ant -- and it wasn't as contentious. >> this is one sixth of our gross national product, rising to one fifth of our gross national product. the costs are out of control of health care in america so when you hear someone say, quote, republicans for mccain doesn't want -- i want to reform health care. i want to reform health care. the costs are out of control.

they're double-digit inflations. -- [applause] >> but let's not forget the quality of health care is what must be preserved in america as well. sean: frank? >> now, you know, sean that i've challenged john mccain on his communication. that was perfection. number one, he didn't need teleprompter. he knew exactly what he wanted to say and he said what he meant. two, the american people do believe the costs of health care is out of control but they're asking this administration, don't destroy the quality as you address the cost. i would say that is perfect. it's what the american people want when it comes to health care. sean: frank, as always, great analysis. and we've got a lot to talk about. our great great "great american panel" streat a -- straight ahead. (announcer) take your time to find the right time

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sean: tonight on our "great american panel," he is the author of several best-selling books. his upcoming book is "life after death, the evidence," dinesh desouza is here. and doug schoen is with us and dick armey is with us. i'm looking at drunl today. the drudge poll. can obama's presidency be saved? he's now got the lowest approval ratings he's had. the public is, you know, strongly rejecting health care. the stimulus has failed. his projections are off. how bad is this? >> well, my own view is it's probably very wad -- bad in the sense that president obama is a bona fide romantic egalitarian liberal big-government advocate and he's not going to change

from that. and the more that model grows in disfavor with the american people, the harder it's going to be for him to earn a second term. the big question i think this president faces, what happens to his majorities in the house and senate in the midterms? what saved president clinton to a large extent was that the republicans came in and -- sean: and saved him? >> they saved him in the sense that he didn't have to reconcile his desire to get, shall i say reconcile to the mid ground of the american people against the left leaning congress. sean: and bill said i think obama needs to november the right. of course he's right. the era of big government is over. i don't see obama with his radicalism heading in that practicing maltic direction. >> sean, i was there and played a part in all those initiatives you are describing and it saved

the clinton presidency and was arguably good for america. what obama and his team have apparently decided they're going to push health care come what may because in their terms a bill is better than no bill. i think that's disastrous. what i would say is if obama took the advice that joe lieberman gave yesterday, get everybody together in a room. put be -- boehner, mcconnell, and the president, craft an interim solution that extends coverage, doesn't have a public option -- sean: you -- he doesn't haven't -- want that. >> here's what i think it's going to come down to. i think we're going to have the blue dog democrats, the liebermans, the evan bayh is, they're going to get in a room, some 50 of them in districts that voted for john mccain for president and what's going to happen is their arms are going to be twisted.

their careers are going to be on the line. they're going to be offered a lot of pork barrel spending in their districts. quite -- which way will they go when the president offers them anything to go support him? >> obama knows that this is a centrist to conservative country. i think he knows that intellectually. on the other hand, emotionally he's pulled in the other direction. then you've got this group, i call them the obama-orons. like here's a precipice, go jump. i think his strategy is he's going to talk right and go left. hoping not a lot of people catch on. that is not working. sean: we have one guy, parker griffith in bapbap -- alabama, who said about nancy pelosi, if she doesn't like it, i've got a gift certificate to a mental health center. >> it's unbelievable he said

that. i'd sure hate to be him the next time he sees george miller! sean: do we see enough remember elion in the democratic ranks? whatever way they want to change the wording of this, and we just had frank luntz on, they can say it's a government option or co-op. bottom line is the american people don't support it, as we saw at the top of the show tonight. >> that's right. dick armey was putting his finger on something. you can dress things up, but if you don't respond to people's real concerns, the language doesn't matter. people want health care reform. they just don't want what barack obama is doing. >> i think in a way obama may have misread the success he had with the stimulus package. there was an economic nose-dive and he was able to railroad that through, so in a way he got spoiled by it and he's spoiled by a genuflecting media that doesn't call him to account.

so he says these people who oppose me, they just don't understand. sean: congressman, you've been through a controversial time in your career. do you think bay voiding town halls and being afraid to answer questions of constituents or lashing out at constituents, what do you think the fallout of that is going to be? >> i'm trying to watch this process. i'm fascinated by their leadership telling them these aren't real people. i say pity on the poor member of their junior caucus standing on fragile, thin ice who believes that because the only bauses -- buses that are really out there are the ones that nancy is trying to hold them under. when they had the tea parties, she said oh, they'll go away. well, they came back in august. they're coming back in september 12 for a major march in washington. probably 20,000 to 50,000 people marching down pennsylvania a is nancy pelosi still going to be trying to still going to be trying to convince these guys they're nono

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sean: and we continue now with our great american panel. all right, i think what is one of the most reckless and worst decisions of the barack obama presidency is this issue to go after the brave men and women at the cia, which in this very report on page 85 says was enormously successful him in terms of apprehending terrorists and determining future attacks on our country. now, we have eric holder, and, obviously, with the support of the president, they are going after them. number one, it is the biggest mistake to go after he rose. it will cripple our intelligence agency. -- it is a big mistake to go

after heroes. >> i see it, frankly, a little bit differently. i think there is a third, larger problem, which is that we face an ongoing terror threat. we all know the anniversary of 9/11 is coming up. we should be focusing on a bipartisan basis how we keep america safe, which is what leon panetta said in his statement. sean: he said it to his own employees to bolster morale. >> he may be right. obama said we would continue when addition -- rendition, send them to other countries. we face a serious problem. sean: why are we going after the cia when the very report they are citing say it worked? >> they are acting as if the problem with the cia is that we want a kinder, gentler cia, if you will.

the cia is not about scrutiny or criticism, but what i think is wrong with the cia, if you look at the past 20 years, is bad information. look at the cold war. they were telling us that, no, -- we spend a lot of money to get good information, and i think bush should step up and said, " look. somebody gave me bad information. i am going to get to the bottom of this." sean: we often saw this in the clinton years, a distraction, and the entire media in this country has bought this bait and switch. i think the last thing they want is people focused on these town halls or the real specifics of health care. >> yes, and we go back to that horrible day, and that which could not be imagined happens, and it was so terribly frightening for the country --

and that which could not be imagined happened. we had too much diminished our capabilities. now, we risked going back again and disarming in that area -- we risk going back again. there seems to be a hangover to worry about. is this a continuation of the notion of just trying to go back and get even with george w. bush? that should not fall into that category. it should be done with. >> may be in their terms of good politics, but where we as as a country, we really have to focus on the problems going forward. sean: politically, this is suicide for them. all right, let me ask you one question on the economy before vigo.

six months ago, they projected a deficit of $7 trillion. -- one question on the economy before we go. now, is $9 trillion. -- it is $9 trillion. how big of an impact will this be on the 2010 elections? >> the bigger problem is that this is obama's problem. what would seem as his great toughness as an asset, it is not that anymore. his great strength has been his celebrity as quality, that he is open to discussion, that he is a reasonable guy, and as soon as that seems as a cover for the obama takeover of the government or the obama takeover of health care -- >> i think he is falling, and i think the deficit numbers suggest it is a real problem politically. sean: